Poetry, music, politics

The music group Karbido. Photo: Denys Ovchar

Andrukhovych knew what he wanted for his recitation; he came to us and explained how we should play. We immediately found a common language. Soon after we recorded an album together. It was called Samogon and contained his poetry from Songs for the Dead Rooster.

What was Andrukhovych’s standing in Ukraine at the time? Was he already considered the “Patriarch” of Ukrainian literature?

Yes, when I was travelling to Lviv in the 1990s, he was already a part of the canon and being studied at university. He was such a legend and I was surprised when he came to Wrocław in 2005 – I thought he had passed away, even though he was only 45. I didn’t know any of his books at the time. I chose not to read them during the first few years of our collaboration.  I only knew the texts we were working with on the records. It took a while before I took out the books and actually read them.

Your last album Atlas estremo is based on Andrukhovych’s book Lexicon of Intimate Cities, where he describes his experiences from dozens of towns. In a piece called Moscow the poet sings out loud: “God how I would want to be English, German, French or even Japanese, just so I could truly like Moscow! As if something grand, freaking rich, exotic and alien, placed within a safe distance like Rio, Shanghai or New York.” In Minsk, he sings in Belarusian, which cannot be a coincidence. Are you interested in politics?
Over the years we have become increasingly interested, reacting to the changing reality. Andrukhovych himself often talks about political issues. During the Revolution of Dignity, he had a thesis: if people like Yanukovych win thanks to Donbas, then maybe it would be better to leave that region to Russia…

This caused numerous controversies, but many started to repeat it after him: either Euro-integration or territorial integrity at any cost…

A few years earlier, when we went to Kharkiv in the east of the country, we asked him to tell us something about the place. He answered ironically that, “I come from western Ukraine. In Kharkiv, I feel like a Croat in Serbia.” On the topic of Crimea, he criticises the Tatars, that they didn’t do anything other than take to the streets in order to defend the peninsula. Our third album Absynth came out in 2012, during the European Football Championships, which were held in Poland and Ukraine and when Kyiv was looking West. We asked about Ukraine’s place in Europe. Atlas estremo is a spontaneous reaction to the events in Ukraine in the last few years. Later we played concerts as far as Mariupol, a few kilometres from the frontline.

You decided not to perform on the Maidan during the revolution. An iconic picture from the protests was a man playing the piano in front of the Berkut officers. Did music play an important role during that revolution?

The stage at the Maidan was alive and it gathered many musicians. Friends from a Ukrainian band called DachaBracha told us that for the people who were guarding the square, the fact that music still played meant the revolution was still alive. Ukraine is a musical nation, more than Poland. Take parties as an example. In Ukraine people start singing songs and it isn’t about drunken tunes. Everyone knows those songs, but not from school. It is like they know them, just like that. So the Maidan concerts were one thing. People were also singing and playing.

Could you explain this somehow?

It is a nation with a strong sense of community. You remember the anthem of the Orange Revolution?

Razom nas bahato (together we are many)…

…Nas ne podolaty (we can’t be defeated). Exactly.

How did the Ukrainian music scene react to the events of recent years: the Maidan, Crimea, Donbas?

This scene has undergone a lot of changes in the last few years. Over a decade ago, when we started to tour Ukraine with Yuri, I was buying loads of CDs there and I would listen to Ukrainian music over internet radio. I didn’t know a lot of bands, so I was sometimes buying blind, usually attracted by the cover. There was some good Ukrainian language music at that time, but the scene was largely dominated by Russian language music. But there were bands, like Dead Rooster, who were performing in Ukrainian since the 1990s (and which the book Songs for the Dead Rooster is related to). Ocean of Elza is another band that performs in Ukrainian, but these were often the exceptions.

Today, listening to Ukrainian or Russian music has become more of a political choice. The choice is made not only by the audience, but by the media and state as well. There are regulations that oblige broadcasters to allot time to certain material like Ukrainian language music. The media are now promoting the popularity of Ukrainian bands which, in turn, leads to exposure and greater revenues from concerts. Since more and more Ukrainians, especially younger generations, are learning Ukrainian as their first language, it has an effect on the language of the emerging bands.

This will be a long battle. A pop star singing in Russian could potentially reach hundreds of millions listeners in Russia, Kazakhstan or in Belarus. While Ukrainian performers only reach Ukrainians. And the Russian-language music industry is much more developed. It is also easier to be successful in countries of the former Soviet Union, mostly because of being close to the language and culture…

Popular music is a different topic, although the divide between Ukrainian language niche rock or punk music and Russian language pop blurs. Today, Ukrainians often create popular music for themselves in their own language.

What are some of the other issues Ukrainian music bands face?

One of the biggest issues is organising concerts. There is a lack of professionals in this regard. If it hadn’t been for two women from a certain agency, we would not have been able to have concerts with Andrukhovych in Ukraine so many years ago. Another time we arrived for a concert in a large theatre in Kyiv and the director provided just two small speakers, saying it was enough for a proper rock concert.

Copyrights are also a problematic issue in Ukraine. It is relatively easy to download an album online or to buy a pirated version at a bazar. It is even possible to hear a song from an illegal source on the radio.

While this is true, CDs have stopped being the main income source for musicians. The fees they receive for music, legally streamed, is almost nothing. Artists earn mostly on concerts these days. This is where the problem lies. Things are changing, thankfully. Kyiv is a large city with hipster spots that could have just as easily been in Warsaw or Berlin. And there are a few good clubs. But outside Kyiv, it is much worse. The problem for concert organisers is the dim perspective of low turnovers in ticket sales.

Does Ukrainian music have a chance to reach a western audience?

This question is timely as I have noticed that the Ukrainian state has started to think about ways to promote their country through music abroad. Observing the efforts of the Ukrainian embassy in Poland, I see that they are eager, but the resources are lacking.

What could interest westerners in Ukrainian music?

It has this unique and frequently used folk component. I am even getting a bit tired of it, as there is so much of it. Even if they play rock or punk, there are these references to national songs. Take DachaBracha, for example, who play ethnic music from all over the world, describing it as “ethno-chaos”. Another example is Perkalaba, from Ivano-Frankivsk, who take inspiration from punk and ska. This is a unique and interesting phenomenon.

Perkalaba’s concert in Kraków was in a small venue. It is still very niche…

This is why I have no illusions. It will be difficult for Ukrainian music to reach mass audiences in the West. Its fate is to remain a niche. It isn’t Anglo-Saxon pop. But this doesn’t mean it won’t interest the connoisseurs. One should refrain from belittling the popularity of Ukrainian bands. DachaBracha tour the US each year and get some attention. Just like how the Ukrainian authors in Wrocław in 2005 were helped by the Orange Revolution, now artists are associated with the Revolution of Dignity – the world was reminded of Ukraine. DachaBracha tell their audience about the annexation of Crimea, and Oleg Sentsov (the Ukrainian filmmaker who has been in a Russian prison since the annexation of Crimea). They have been successful in raising Ukrainian issues to a wider audience.

What other developments do you see in Ukrainian music today?

One interesting development has been in the electronic music scene, where ethnic inspirations have also played a part. A precursor was Zavoloka some ten years ago. Folk-electro is a respected and growing genre. Just take a look at what Onuka did last year at the Eurovision Song Contest. After a dozen weak songs at this pop festival, she got on stage and played an intriguing piece which combined electronic and folk music. It was poppy, but original. I think that, in this way, she has become an ambassador of Ukrainian culture.

There has been some speculation that Sviatoslav Vakarchuk, the lead singer of Ocean of Elza, could run in the 2019 presidential elections with some polls suggesting he could be competitive. How symbolic of a figure is Vakarchuk to Ukrainians?

The strength of Vakarchuk and Ocean of Elza is that they have been consistent for years. Since the 1990s they have been singing in Ukrainian, identified with the country, active proponents of a democratic and sovereign Ukraine – especially during the Revolution of Dignity. People appreciate this consistency. I would like the 43-year-old Vakarchuk to replace Poroshenko as president.

It is hard to remain a public figure removed from politics in Ukraine.

We had problems connected to this. One of our concert tours was supported by Poroshenko’s foundation which was officially pro-European – I remember the EU flag on its logo. Suddenly, a week ahead of the first concert, Poroshenko entered the government of Mykola Azarov as the minister of economic development and trade. Andrukhovych called me and said: “Listen, we have to break off the concert tour, because we can’t be connected with this.” In the end, we swallowed our pride and played with the support of one of Yanukovych’s ministers.

The best two authors in Ukraine are, in my opinion, Zhadan and Andrukhovych – both have music bands. Both have a clear standpoint in political matters. Is this a Ukrainian phenomenon? That the authors want to be bards and “sing on the barricades”?

Zhadan and Andrukhovych both like to recite or sing their poetry. I mentioned how we met with Yuri – we were supposed to play music so people wouldn’t fall asleep during the poetry recitals. Ukrainians are more energised during such performances. They want direct contact with poetry, also in its singing form. The fact that music is a way of expressing yourself politically in Ukraine is because the political reality there forces people to take sides.

Translated by Daniel Gleichgewicht

Tomasz Sikora is a Polish musician and a member of the band Karbido. He is the founder of the artistic platform “Hermetical Garage”.

Zbigniew Rokita is a Polish journalist specialising in Eastern Europe. He is the author of a recent book titled Królowie strzelców. Piłka w cieniu imperium – a report on Eastern Europe as shown through the prism of sport and politics over the last century.

Andrukhovych, Music, Ukraine